Rugby or cheap fight?

I was just reading the news on Sport in Greece
…”Athens’ claim to be the best side in the country came a series of cheap shots that left their reputation in question.”…
That lift up the question, is rugby in Greece becoming bad? How can you promote a game if you are showing such an ugly side?
If we want to promote rugby in Greece, this has got to stop. This is up to the referee and the federation. The match could have been stopped!
You can not STEP on someone, read the IRB rules. Well, when a player is offside and this on purpose and that the referee does not say anything you make him understand but that is it. Otherwise, you are here to hurt the guy and this has NO PLACE in Greece where you are trying to attack people and show a good stop.
I have played for years in Greece and never hear of something like this. It was hard to play against ARFC but it was fair. Guys what happened? I know you would not have done this against the old boks…

19 Responses to “Rugby or cheap fight?”


  1. 1 Loiz Jan 22nd, 2008 at 8:11 pm

    Pascal, first of all I want to congratulate you on a great site. It’s great to have somewhere for us all to discuss rugby in Greece. However, posting a sensationalist piece like this on the front page of your website is counterproductive against exactly the thing you and we are all trying to do i.e. promote rugby in Greece. I think we cleared everything up on the forum yesterday about what happened in the game on Saturday.

    In reference to the stamping, from what I saw, and being fullback I think I have a pretty good view, there was only one instance of stamping which was called by the referee and that was on our inexperienced no9 who is still larning what he should and shouldnt do. The rest of the ’stamping’ was fair rucking out of players who were on the wrong side. By fair I mean players with forward motion driving over the ball and what was in their way, not driving their feet in a downward motion onto prostrate players on the ground. Stamping is illegal and dangerous, it shouldnt be allowed I agree, but on the flipside, if the coaches taught players to get out of the way and not lay all over the ball on the wrong side of the ruck then this discussion would only be about one instance, and like I said, that was penalised by the referee.

    Talk of stopping the game is ridiculous, and as was also mentione in the sportingreece article the crowd were an absolute disgrace. Baiting and swearing at the players is out of order and more expected of football fans than rugby fans. If the crowd had any idea about rugby they would have been calmer and so would the reaction to the game have been more balanced. I’m surprised you’re adding more fuel to the fire. Also, if we’re talking about the idea of sportsmanship then why did the boks coach refuse to shake my hand after the game? Is that gentlemanly conduct? Perhaps Greek rugby would be helped by people looking at themselves first rather than rushing to point the finger.

    Thanks,
    Loiz

  2. 2 yeah Jan 22nd, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    HOLD IT a minute dont blame arfc for everthing that would be totally unfair.THEY ARE NOT TROUBLE MAKERS ,THEY JUST GET THEMSELVES INTO IT !!!LOL.ATHENS RFC,IS IN GOOD HANDS IVE MET THERE COACH HIS A GREAT GUY AND HAS STRONG BELIEVES IN DEVELOPING RUGBY ,HE WAS VERY PISSED AT HIS PLAYERS DIDNT YOU SEE THAT, AND WHY DONT YOU MENTION IT!

    ATHENS IS IN GOOD HANDS !LIKE I SAID BEORE .

  3. 3 HMarc Jan 23rd, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    I don’t use to interfer in discussion, but I must correct some points:
    - indeed ARFC coach apologized (twice) to Springboks members
    - stamping were made 6 times (at least) with ‘downward’ motion from four different players and at one single occasion by three different players (!) (the last one getting yellow and this being the one penalized Loiz is referring to)(see video)
    - most spectators were long time rugby fans and players.
    - since some have claimed that stamping is authorized have a look at laws 10.4 (b) and 16.3 (f) (plus referee signal 38 and regulation 17 appendix 1 10.4(b))

    Hope you get back to your usual fair play and keep the good work.

  4. 4 HMarc Jan 23rd, 2008 at 2:02 pm

    About ‘gentlemantly conduct’: you did not see the traditional ‘cheering’ tunnel set up by the Springboks players after the game? First time I see a team disdaining it!

  5. 5 Pascal Jan 23rd, 2008 at 4:13 pm

    Loiz, “Talk of stopping the game is ridiculous”, well this is the rule in many countries when all players start fighting instead of playing. I am not stating it was the case here.

    Yeah, I am not blaming ARFC. I was there when ARFC was created, I played against this team, I played with this team and I wore with pride the owls’ jersey.
    I was just surprised to see this as it never occurred before.

  6. 6 yeah Jan 23rd, 2008 at 4:51 pm

    pascal let me tell you something ….i think your forum rocks!!!!!!!!!!

  7. 7 Loiz Jan 23rd, 2008 at 4:58 pm

    HMarc if you read the forum you’ll see I explained the situation regarding the tunnel, Im not repeating myself again.

    For the last time, NOONE IS CLAIMING THAT STAMPING IS LEGAL, CAN YOU NOT READ!!???!!! Rucking is legal, and if you dont want to get rucked then dont get on the wrong side.

    If ‘most spectators were long time rugby fans and players’ then I’m amazed because swearing, baiting, and calling for people to have their legs broken is not something I would associate with anybody who has anything to do with rugby.

    This matter is closed as far as I’m concerned. The people who are worth speaking to I have spoken to about this and they have offered balanced responses and I thank them for it. I hope my apologies have been accepted by the people I aplogised to.

    But if you, HMARC, want to continue crying and whining about losing AGAIN then thats your prerogative, but I’ve had enough of it.

    Good day to you sir.

  8. 8 yeah Jan 23rd, 2008 at 5:06 pm

    lol

  9. 9 HMarc Jan 23rd, 2008 at 5:54 pm

    Loiz: my post for tunnel 2:02, your post 2:05 …
    Laws are using specific words for specific actions.
    You don’t blame a whole crowd for some stupid guys.
    I did not know that mentioning strictly facts was “crying and whining’. If so, I apologize.
    And I take note that I’m not ‘worth speaking to’.
    Wording agressivity is not constructive.

    Good day to you to. END

  10. 10 Loiz Jan 23rd, 2008 at 6:13 pm

    HMARC, just to clarify, the ‘people worth speaking to’ comment wasnt aimed at you. Sorry if it came across that way.

  11. 11 Loiz Jan 23rd, 2008 at 6:25 pm

    Re Pascal, eides ti ‘can of worms’ anoikses with your ‘lifting up of the question’??? lol

  12. 12 Goth Jan 28th, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    Given that Athens are beating everyone for 4 years now (3 championships), evolving as a team and producing real -well structured- rugby, then they have «to leave their reputation in question», to disgrace their dominance in greek rugby.

    Now everyone is happy. ARFC are the bad and the rest are the «innocent» who try to play but they cant ’cause Athens want «a cheap fight»…

    Ι wish there were statistics in our games!!!!!!

    ΗenryM you say «most spectators were long time rugby fans and players» and then that «You don’t blame a whole crowd for some stupid guys».
    Ιt wasnt 2 or 3 guys swearing ARFC players (δεν αναφέρω τις βρίσιες γιατί θα γίνει ασχημο το περιεχόμενο) but the whole stand!!!!!!
    I am playing 12 years rugby (maybe not much) and I ve never seen such a behaviour.

    All infringements by ARFC players were penalised by the referee (especially the stamping). Stamping clearly is not allowed but when repeatedly Aticca’s players were lying on the ball in rucks, obstructing the continuation of the game, THEY have to be penalised! If the ref doesnt act, then the boot has the word, and if I am exagerrating you can see numerous incidents in the Rugby World Cup (french team especially).

    ‘Gentlemantly conduct’: you did not see the traditional ‘cheering’ tunnel set up by the Springboks players after the game?» ΝΟ WE DIDNT AND WE COULDNT HEAR IT BECAUSE OF THE “NICE COMMENTS” FROM THE STAND.
    ARFC appologised, and I personnaly did, for the misunderstanding.
    « First time I see a team disdaining it!» Sincerely that was NOT ARFC intention. Its very interesting though that the opposite was underlined by the media commentary.

    Pascal maybe you have to change the name of the site …

    Και μία στα ελληνικά γιατί είμαστε στην Ελλάδα .
    Tο stamping βεβαίως απαγορεύεται (ειναι σαφές στους κανονισμούς), όταν όμως ο αντίπαλος παίκτης και στην προκειμένη περίπτωση οι παίκτες των Αττικα επανειλημμένως «ξαπλώνουν» πάνω στην μπάλα εμποδίζοντας τη συνέχεια του αγώνα, και ο διαιτητής δεν σφυρίζει την παράβαση, για να συνεχιστεί ο αγώνας ο επιτιθέμενος παίκτης πρέπει να απομακρύνει τον αντίπαλο. Ο πιο εύκολος τρόπος είναι με τις τάπες καλώς ή κακώς. Αυτό έγινε τουλάχιστον 10 φορές στο πρόσφατο Παγκόσμιο Πρωτάθλημα Ράγκμπι (επαναλαμβάνω δεν είναι νόμιμο αλλά όπως με όλους τους νόμους υπάρχει ελαστικότητα στην εφαρμογή του).
    Σε κάθε περίπτωση πάντως, τα stamping τιμωρήθηκαν στον αγώνα με πέναλτι σε βάρος των ARFC ακόμα και με κίτρινη κάρτα στο πρώτο ημίχρονο, οπότε προς τι το μάθημα κανονισμών;;;;;!!!!

    Μήπως να μάθουν και οι Attica τους κανονισμούς του ruck?

    Oι περισσότερες παραβάσεις των παικτών των ARFC τιμωρήθηκαν.

    Για το επεισόδιο στο τέλος, είναι κατακριτέο και δεν υπάρχει καμία δικαιολογία (αλλά και αυτό τιμωρήθηκε με κόκκινη κάρτα και ότι αυτή συνεπάγεται).

    Για το τούνελ, με κάθε ειλικρίνεια και σοβαρότητα υπογραμμίζω ότι δεν έγινε αντιληπτό λόγω των «επιφωνημάτων χαράς» της κερκίδας. Εξάλλου τόσο ο προπονητής, όσο και οι παίκτες των Πρωταθλητών ζήτησαν συγνώμη για την παρεξήγηση και θα υπάρξει και επίσημη συνέχεια.

    Εξάλλου αν οι Αthens Rugby ήθελαν να σνομπάρουν το χαιρετισμό των αντιπάλων, μετά δεν θα καθόντουσαν να συζητούν με τους προπονητές τους παίκτες και τους παράγοντες των Αttica για τον αγώνα (ό,τι και αν έγινε στο γήπεδο μένει στο γήπεδο). Ποτέ η ομάδα της Αθήνας δεν έχει δείξει υπερφίαλη ή ασεβή συμπεριφορά προς τις παραδόσεις του Ράγκμπι ή τον αντίπαλο.

    Για την αποκατάσταση του θέματος του χαιρετισμού θα υπάρξει επίσημη συγνώμη και κίνηση από τους Αthens Rugby.

    Τα όσα γράφτηκαν στα μίντια και σε αυτό το σάιτ είναι καταφανώς μονόπλευρα και συχνά εμπρηστικά. Με χαρά είδα ότι οι παίκτες και των δύο ομάδων πήραν την κατάσταση στα χέρια τους για να διαλυθεί αυτό το κλίμα απαξίωσης.

    Ευχαριστώ, Thanks, Merci
    GOTH (No1 sto match alla talonneur)

  13. 13 mc02667 Jan 28th, 2008 at 4:02 pm

    Καταλαβαίνω πως σε ενοχλεί το περιεχόμενο του άρθρου και πράγματι και εγώ θεωρώ πως είναι μονόπλευρο. Λάβε όμως υπ’ όψιν σου πως ο Pascal δεν παρίστατο στο παιχνίδι συνεπώς δεν μπορεί να διαμορφώσει ολοκληρωμένη άποψη και εδώ είναι που το χάνει. Γνώμη μου είναι πως το σχόλιο σου είναι ετεροχρονισμένο. Όπως λες και εσύ το θέμα ξεκαθαρίστηκε μεταξύ των παιχτών επομένως δε νομίζεις πως είναι εμπρηστική και η κίνηση σου να απαντάς σε κάτι που έχει τελειώσει εδώ και τουλάχιστον 5 μέρες;

  14. 14 Goth Jan 28th, 2008 at 4:06 pm

    Εχεις απόλυτο δίκιο. Δεν έχω καμία τέτοια πρόθεση. Απλά ήθελα να γράψω τη γνώμη μου. Τίποτα παραπάνω.
    Δεν θέλω να ανακινήσω κανένα θέμα. Το θεωρώ λήξαν.
    Και ζητώ συγνώμη αν προκάλεσα.

  15. 15 Pascal Jan 28th, 2008 at 4:09 pm

    Goth,
    I am not commenting on what is good and bad, I was not even there. ;)
    Just a comment on “Pascal maybe you have to change the name of the site …”
    As you can see, you are free to post anything you want on rugby.gr.
    This site is about RUGBY IN GREECE nothing else. I am not taking position for or against a team. Just FYI, my first player profile was a ARFC player!
    All the teams are allowed to post their comments, game reviews, pictures,…
    I have ask to have one representative of every single team to send me game report, news… and I am still waiting. The only one to do it so far was HMarc but you are more than welcome to publish your own.
    Regards
    P.

    “I am exagerrating you can see numerous incidents in the Rugby World Cup”, I like the parallel between rugby world cup and greek championship.

  16. 16 Goth Jan 29th, 2008 at 2:10 pm

    Official anouncement – Eπίσημη ανακοίνωση

    O Αθλητικός Σύλλογος Ράγκμπι Φούτμπολ Αθηνών (Αthens Rugby) εκφράζει τη βαθύτατη θλίψη του για τη μη τήρηση του παραδοσιακού τελετουργικού (τούνελ) κατά την αποχώρηση των παικτών από το γήπεδο μετά το τέλος του αγώνα της 19ης Ιανουαρίου, για το 3ο Πανελλήνιο Πρωτάθλημα Ράγκμπι.

    Η διοίκηση, οι αθλητές και ο προπονητής των Αthens Rugby θα ήθελαν να υπογραμμίσουν ότι το εν λόγω –κατακριτέο από κάθε πλευρά- περιστατικό σε καμία περίπτωση δεν οφειλόταν σε εσκεμμένη ενέργεια και να διαβεβαιώσουν ότι ο σεβασμός των παραδόσεων του Ράγκμπι αποτελεί απαράβατη αρχή για το Σύλλογο μας.

    Για το λόγο αυτό οι Πρωταθλητές Ελλάδος ζητούν αφενός συγνώμη από τους παίκτες, τον προπονητή και τους φιλάθλους των Αttica Springboks για τη μη τέλεση του παραδοσιακού τούνελ και αφετέρου, αναλαμβάνοντας την ευθύνη του συμβάντος, προσκαλούν την ομάδα των Αttica σε φιλικό αγώνα για την αποκατάσταση της εν λόγω παράδοσης του αθλήματος. Προτεινόμενη ημερομηνία, η 15η – 16η Μαρτίου 2008, ή όποια άλλη ημερομηνία επιλέξει ο Σύλλογος Σπρίνγκμποκς Αττικής.

    Με τιμή,
    Η διοίκηση, οι παίκτες και ο προπονητής του
    Αθλητικού Συλλόγου Ράγκμπι Αθηνών

    (σημείωση: Η ανακοίνωση είναι στα ελληνικά. Όποιος -και αν- θέλει να τη μεταφράσει, μπορεί ελεύθερα να το κάνει).

    Ευχαριστώ για τη φιλοξενία
    Goth

  17. 17 mc02667 Jan 29th, 2008 at 3:40 pm

    Ελπίζω οι υπεύθυνοι των Attica να αποδεχθούν την πρόσκληση.
    Έυγε!

  18. 18 sthemeli Feb 28th, 2008 at 5:20 pm

    Pascal , Dominic and Douglas are three guys who spend their Saturday morning educating , playing with kids ( By the way why the ARFC team has no academy ?? ) and teaching THE VALUES of this wonderful game . No that I have read his comment I feel reassured that my 8 years old kid ( the only Greek-Greek player of the team by the way … λοιπόν αντί να στέλνετε POST λες και είστε σε Forum ΠΑΟ-ΟΣΦΠ-ΑΕΚ φτιάξτε ακαδημίες και στείλτε τα παιδιά σας να μάθουν από τύπους σαν το Pascal και όχι μόνο Rugby … ) is in good hand with Guys like him …. MERCI PASCAL. “Le foot c’est un jeu de gentlemen pratique par des voyous , le rugby c’est un sport de voyous pratique par des gentlemen”

  19. 19 Joey Mac Jun 9th, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    Speaking as a guy born in ireland who, i think, would qualify to play rugby for greece, i think it’s great you’ve got this site up my friend!!

    I am trying to contact Rhodos rugby club as i will be travelling to the island again soon, and would like to attend a training session.

    EFHARISTO!!